Transcription of Jay Villani for the show Pond Hockey & Portland Eating #282
Lisa Belisle: Today it’s my great pleasure to spend time with Jay Villani, who is the owner of Local 188, Sonny’s, and Salvage BBQ and co-owner of the newly opened Bunker Brewing Company here in Portland. And also the father of a couple kids and the husband of a wonderful artist named Alison. Thanks so much for coming in.
Jay Villani: Oh, my pleasure.
Lisa Belisle: I’m really fascinated by the fact that you started 18 years ago with Local 188 and you’ve become like this little megalopolis. In all the best ways.
Jay Villani: Yes, yes, and yeah. I’ve been very fortunate in this town. You know, we started as a group of artists who just wanted to hang out with each other and have a place to show our artwork, and it kind of grew organically into what it is today.
Lisa Belisle: Now tell me why it’s called Local 188.
Jay Villani: My wife and I had a little gallery prior to opening 188 called the Pleasant Street Collective, so we were just sticking with workers movements and themes. It really had nothing to do with the farm to table movement or buy local thing. It was just, it was like a union hall, you know, and we just wanted to go with that theme of a place where people can gather and hang and be who they are, you know. And again, it just kind of snowballed into what we have today.
Lisa Belisle: So you originally came from Staten Island.
Jay Villani: I did, I did. Via New Mexico, it’s where I met my wife out in New Mexico. I was traveling out west and landed in Santa Fe and met her and then she got accepted to graduate school back in the city. So I followed her back east and when she finished graduate school we went camping up in Millinocket and drove through Portland on the way back to her parents with some lobsters and said we would give it five years. And here we are. 24 years later.
Lisa Belisle: Well that’s not … It’s kind of impressive that you’ve managed not only to stay together for 24 years but also have these two children who are 15 and 13, so right in the teenage years, and then you have all of these businesses. And you’re both artists. That’s a lot of kind of energy moving around there.
Jay Villani: Yeah, it’s, you know, it’s not … There’s some friction sometimes with it, you know. But again it’s not all me, it’s who I’ve been able to surround myself with. You know I have a lot of great people that I work with who help make this a reality. So, you know, I can’t take all the credit for it.
Lisa Belisle: So how did you get interested in food initially?
Jay Villani: Well, you know, being an artist in New York, the only work I could really find was restaurant work, I just had an aptitude for it. You know, I had a lot of good chefs who told me if I pulled my head out of my (bleep) I’d be good at it, you know. But I didn’t want to be that guy. You know, when I was a kid there wasn’t really any Food Network or cooking shows, it was just bitter old guys with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths over a stock pot. You know, this is what you got to look forward to, kid. You know, it’s like, ah, no, no, no.
But I was just good at it, you know. I was the kid who got fired on Wednesday and rehired back on Friday because I could handle volume. It just started washing dishes, one day a salad guy didn’t show up. You know, can you do this? Like, I’ll do it chef. And then the grill guy didn’t show up. I can do that chef, you know, and that’s how I progressed.
And really the impetus for opening my own restaurants was that I could make just as little money working for myself without someone berating me all day. So I just got tired of working for (bleep) is basically what happened, you know, so. And here we are today. I’m sure some of my employees would dub me that, but I don’t think so.
Lisa Belisle: So it is an interesting industry that you work within because you’re right, I think the glamor of food is somewhat recent.
Jay Villani: Oh, yeah, it’s within the past 10 years or so it’s really just boomed from like a Hollywood perspective. It’s crazy.
Lisa Belisle: But there’s still, I mean, it’s hard work. It’s hard, it’s long hours, it’s late at night, and it’s hard.
Jay Villani: Yeah. I think what the real return is, is the feedback you get from people on a nightly basis for better for worse. The meal was great, it was sub-par, you know, you deal with that on a daily basis. And it’s also a long haul thing. It’s a marathon, you know, it’s not a get rich quick scheme by any stretch of the imagination. With rising costs, you know, margins are really low. And that’s why we have three of them because it’s hard to really make a go with just one. But we like the challenge. You know, I really like designing rooms. I’ve always approached our businesses as sculptures. The energy, the kinetic motion, how they flow. That’s what really turns me on about them.
Lisa Belisle: Well if you are designing each of your businesses as a sculpture, then how would you describe each of them?
Jay Villani: Well, you know, Local is always going to be my favorite because it was the first one. Sonny’s is a very kinetic, it’s the bar scene, the type of food that they’re doing there. And Salvage is just like a party, you know. It’s like a mobile, like a Calder mobile, it’s just constantly spinning and whirling and twirling and so much going on. It’s a lot of fun.
Lisa Belisle: And then what about the one that you most recently opened?
Jay Villani: The brewery? The brewery was a way for me to pay it forward actually. Chresten, my partner, the brewer Chresten Sorensen, he was leading our bread program for a few years. He was working out of Sonny’s and supplying our restaurants with breads. And he was just a home brewer and kept bringing in beer and the beer was great. And after a few pints one day he asked me if I was interested in owning a brewery and seemed like a really good idea at the time.
But, you know, again, someone did that with me. My partner Matt, when I wanted to open up something I had someone there who gave me a little money, gave me some faith and we were off and running. So it was kind of nice for me to do that with Chresten. It was a good way to pivot also, you know, restaurants are hard and breweries are hard too, but it was just a nice transition from like retail to production. It’s, and again, it’s the kids who are brewing down there are awesome to be around and it’s just a really fun experiment right now.
Lisa Belisle: My experience as a waitress was brief and very instructive. And also incredibly difficult. I thought waitressing was very, very difficult. But more of my experience lately has been going to restaurants. And I think that what a lot of people believe is that the food is the thing. But what I … And I think food is very important. But what I think is most important for me is the feeling, is the vibe, is how you’re treated and what the relationship is with the server, and what the server’s relationship is with everyone else.
Jay Villani: Yeah, there has to be connectivity, you know, that’s very important to me. That our front of the house and our back of the house are on the same page and that we don’t take for granted that people are coming in our doors and spending their money, you know. And they’re here for an experience and what we’re trying to provide for them, and I want to get that across to the customer. You know, that’s very important to me that people leave happy.
You know, we get some feedback that they’re not always happy, but that’s the feedback you really got to focus on. You know, everyone can blow smoke up your (bleep). Oh, this is great, what a wonderful meal, blah blah blah. That’s awesome, you know, but the person who’s upset, you’ve really got to pay attention to it. And how do you correct that. You’re not going to please everybody every time. Some people do walk in the door and are just miserable, I mean, your hands are tied. But there’s got to be a way to correct it. I’d rather have people leave happy or at least know that we tried to make them feel better about their experience than just throw your hands up and say, oh well, I couldn’t help you. So that’s never a good thing.
Lisa Belisle: Well and it does, at least my experience is that a little goes a long way. If something goes really wrong and somebody just apologizes or does something very small, like would you like to have a dessert, exactly, yeah.
Jay Villani: A dessert, or a gift certificate. Or, it’s on me tonight, try us again at a different time. It’s you know, a little effort, a little effort. It’s kind of the same philosophy with my kids. A little effort goes a long way, especially in math, Sonny. That’s the name of my son by the way so it’s kind of trite that Sonny’s is named Sonny and there you have it.
Lisa Belisle: Well I was going to ask you about that next, and now that clarifies things for me.
Jay Villani: Yeah. That’s where that came from.
Lisa Belisle: So how has it been trying to … If you have Local 188, which is 18, so I’m just going to call this your first child. Then you have a 15 year old and a 13 year old and then you have a few other children that are restaurants. How does that all work?
Jay Villani: Well, I call them all my kids. Even the waiters, the cooks, everyone, they’re my kids, you know. So everyone vies for your time and that’s … You know, I’ve learned to listen over the years. You know when I first started I was kind of clueless. So I was, someone called me a screamer and a control freak. You know, it had to be my way, my way, my way. But I quickly learned that I couldn’t do it by myself. And I think once I figured that out we really started to blossom by empowering people and letting them do their thing and bring to the table and harness what they do best, you know. And I think that’s been my greatest attribute as an employer, that I’ve been able to recognize what people do really well and harness that energy and put it in the context of a bigger picture, you know, and to help push and make things grow.
Lisa Belisle: So how do you make that transition from, we’ll just call it in quotes “the boss” to the boss who listens. Because some people just want to say, listen, I own the business, we’re all going to do it my way and if you don’t like it just leave.
Jay Villani: Yeah that just doesn’t work that way. Or it doesn’t work that way for me. I’d rather do it collectively as a group. Again, going back to the collective. Those principles are very important to me. Listening and empowering people. It’s kind of like Jedi mind tricks. I could really … I can get out of you what I need with you thinking you gave it to me and that’s important, you know, and making you feel good about it though at the same time.
That’s the other thing, people have to feel good about what they do and what they bring to the table. If I have a general manager who brings something up and I don’t pay attention to it, that doesn’t do anyone any good, you know. You have to be able to listen and say, okay, implement it and if it doesn’t work maybe we’ll try it this way, or if it worked, great, I would never have thought of doing it that way, wonderful. It’s all about making people feel good about themselves.
Lisa Belisle: It seems that the hospitality industry, perhaps more than some other industries has a lot of people who are doing it for a diverse set of reasons. So some people it’s good for the, the mother’s hours are good for their kids. And for some people they want to spend time on their art.
Jay Villani: Sure. It’s very nomadic.
Lisa Belisle: Yeah. So how does that work as the boss who ultimately has to work with somebody to create a schedule and get staffing done. How do you work with the sort of the ebb and flow of people’s interests and needs?
Jay Villani: You just gotta understand, you know, what people do need. And that’s the important part of running a company. It’s how can I help you succeed? It’s not, do it this way, blah blah blah. It’s how can I help you, you know, and make us better. I think that approach has served us very well over the years. You know, as for as scheduling and things, you just gotta be open to it, you know, and you find that you put the right people in the right position who are committed for the long term and you understand that these people are here for to do a certain job and to pursue other ambitions and that’s okay. I mean that’s basically why most people start waiting tables is because they have a fix they need to support, whether it be art, music, or writing, or comedy you know. It’s the name of the game.
Lisa Belisle: Well and it also … I’ve noticed more and more people who are really, they’re professional servers. So they’re people who take great pride in being able to offer a really wonderful experience. And they do it very intentionally.
Jay Villani: Well that might change with the tax tip credit that is going away. Because people do it because the money’s good. That they could X amount of hours devoted to their job and then X amount of other hours to devote to their passions but with that compression coming down, you know that might not be the trend moving forward unfortunately. You know, it’s gone, the days soon will be gone the days of making 25, 30, 35 bucks and hour waiting tables. You know, everyone’s going to be that flat rate and it’s going to be really disruptive. And it’s going to be interesting to see how we as an industry handle that here. Because things have been going so well for so long, moving forward it’s going to be a hard thing to tackle.
Lisa Belisle: So how has this been tackled in other parts of the world.
Jay Villani: I don’t know, I can’t answer that question. I read studies about Seattle and how it’s helped and how it hasn’t helped. And in New York same thing. You know, until it really affects us at home … You know, we’re girding ourselves for it that’s for sure. We talk openly with our staff about it that changes are coming and we need to be aware of it and prices around town are going to increase and it’s going to be interesting. I mean, I think, I was pro the minimum wage increase. I think it’s very important people make a decent living. I think when it came to the tax tip credit they were really trying to fix a problem that didn’t exist. And I understand the argument that the little towns up north that don’t have the populations to really make a server get a decent living off tips but you could always pay them more, you know, you didn’t have to address the whole. It just, it’s interesting, you know. Scary and interesting at the same time.
Lisa Belisle: So what other scary and interesting things have you observed during your time as a business owner. Maybe just your time on this planet.
Jay Villani: Yeah, well, you know, I’m getting old. That’s a scary thing. You know, I turned 50 last year and I’m looking back at my life and I’m very grateful. And the 35 years, if I have 35 years left I’ll be fired up.
Lisa Belisle: I don’t know if that’s wood you just knocked on, by the way, I think it’s laminate or something.
Jay Villani: That’s okay, that’s alright. It serves its purpose. So just the, that, the getting old part. You know, watching my kids grow has been wonderful and watching the people around me grow. But I ready to … You know, I’ve been working in a restaurant since I was 15 years old and doing this. 35 years in like chef years that’s like 300, you know, it’s a long haul. So I’m thinking about how do I step away from it, you know, what are my exit strategies and how do I put things in place to where it could still keep going without me really there, you know, so those are the uncertainties that I’m facing right now.
Lisa Belisle: So what are you coming up with?
Jay Villani: Fishing. I’d like to go fishing. I’d like to have turquoise blue water and a fishing boat. And that’s pretty much my exit plan at the moment. How am I going to get there, I don’t know. But I’ll figure it out.
Lisa Belisle: Yeah, I’m not sure how much turquoise blue water we have in Maine.
Jay Villani: Yeah, no. No, no. I’m Caribbean bound. That’s where I’m going to be.
Lisa Belisle: But you do have a love of the Greenville area.
Jay Villani: I do. My kids and I, we’ve all gone up there with some other families. We’ve been going up there for years camping and fishing and taking advantage up there. It’s very gorgeous up there, it’s beautiful. It’s quiet, it’s green, water. It’s pretty cool.
Lisa Belisle: So when you’re up there and it’s quiet and there’s not as much going on, do you ever crave the excitement of your business?
Jay Villani: No. No, there’s usually a campfire involved with copious amounts of wine and other adults who have other kids and we’re sticking them in tents and, get away from us. You know, so it’s always a hoot when we go up there, so. I shouldn’t say it’s that quiet, but it’s peaceful on a different level.
Lisa Belisle: So it sounds like you still have that social connection even when you’re up there.
Jay Villani: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Everyone needs that. I need it, you know, it’s what keeps me going. People.
Lisa Belisle: Well, you and I were talking before we came on the air about sort of things happening for a reason. That people’s paths cross and you don’t really know where things are going to go sometimes but you have to just kind of acknowledge that it’s not the end.
Jay Villani: Yeah, you know, things happen for reasons, you know. And everyone I’ve met and been associated with, I’m a firm believer in that the you know the reasons that brought us together, though they might not be clear now will eventually come you know, we’ll be made aware of it.
You know, I’ve had a lot of people come and go over the years and a lot of people who have been in management. And that even for however brief it is the reason you’re you know there was a young woman who used to work for us and who shall remain nameless. And she was just very, not abrasive, but her management style was very cold and forceful. And I sat her down and I said, listen, you know, you’re a very strong woman and akin you to like a piece of rebar and I’m the grinder that needs to take those burrs off it. And for better or for worse for however long we’re together for, you know, that’s my goal with you.
And she no longer works with us but I have a very good relationship with her outside of that and I think it was because of that conversation, you know, it’s important to be nice to people. Or at least compassionate and understanding of what others need. You know, you’re not going to get anyone to work for you if you don’t understand what they need or do what you need them to do without being supportive. So it’s very important.
Lisa Belisle: And feedback is also important. It seems like sometimes we’re … In other work settings, we don’t necessarily get any sort of feedback unless it’s like a structured 90 day review.
Jay Villani: No, good, bad, or indifferent, it’s very important. Communication is key. We get together every week and we discuss what’s going on and sometimes it’s pedantic, sometimes it’s really productive, sometimes it’s funny, sometimes it’s heated but we always get together and we discuss, discuss, discuss, so it’s very key.
Lisa Belisle: When I was having a conversation recently with another couple that own a restaurant, they were talking about the restaurant space as being kind of an interesting other space. So you have your home space, you have your work space, but then you also have this other space that you go into where you have a meal, you have a communal experience, you have … And I’m wondering if that’s the type of sculpture that you have been trying to create all these years.
Jay Villani: You know the greatest feedback, or the best feedback I ever got about Local was from a couple who used to drive up from Connecticut just to eat with us and they felt like they were in their living room, you know. So I guess that’s … You know, I wanted to create rooms where people wanted to be. Or a room that I wanted to be in. So that’s very important to me, that type of environment.
Tapas bars, and the impetus for Local was like a tapas bar and tapas bars are supposed to be very lively, loud, you know, energetic, interactive, you know, that’s very important to me that people are able to interact. Whether it be with a server, whether it be with the food, whether it be with the people sitting at their table. Whether it be they’re sitting at the counter looking at the kitchen, you know, interacting with the cooks and talking to them while they’re working. That social aspect of it, it’s very important to me.
You know, and I think we have accomplished that at all three of our restaurants. Definitely at Sonny’s, you know, with just the kinetic and the vibe with the bar and the open kitchen concepts. Local, same, the BBQ is just a big giant open, you know, it’s like a hoe down in there most nights and that’s, I think it’s great. The down side to big rooms is when there’s nobody in them and they’re empty and it’s like oh, boy, you know, what’s going on here? But fortunately that hasn’t been the case.
Lisa Belisle: Have you benefited from Portland becoming more of a food hotspot?
Jay Villani: Oh yeah. Yeah, definitely. You know, it has its pluses and minuses. 18 years ago there weren’t that many of us. Gone are the 200, 250 cover nights night in and night out. But it makes you be more aware of your game and trying to stay on top of it, you know, to still be relevant 18 years later. I’m very fortunate, you know, I feel very lucky. And I don’t take it for granted. But yeah, you know, it’s pretty cool that we’re known for being a food city. It’s pretty awesome.
Lisa Belisle: And there also seem to be, at least my experience, I live in the suburbs and there’s a lot of traffic back and forth so there seems to be more people who come and stay over the winter. It doesn’t seem to be that it shuts down so acutely as it once did.
Jay Villani: Yeah, I you know, another thing where Local has benefited. When we opened up in Longfellow square it wasn’t really a destination neighborhood, so I was very dependent on local people so I never really felt the pinch in the winter time that more touristy neighborhoods felt. But I think that has kind of waned over the years with all the … You know, there’s so many new hotels that have opened up and more people come in year round to enjoy what’s going on. You know, it’s not just … I mean, we do have a season, but it’s not as dire as it once was like you know January 1st you know it’s like a ghost town. But we’ve managed to keep the doors open, so.
Lisa Belisle: Well I appreciate all of the effort that you’ve put in to the restaurants.
Jay Villani: Oh, thanks.
Lisa Belisle: I haven’t met your children, I’m sure they’re wonderful. I’m sure your wife is wonderful. But I know that your restaurants are wonderful and I spent a fair amount of time in them so I encourage anyone who hasn’t been there to go down. I don’t know why if you live anywhere in this area or even visit. I don’t know why you wouldn’t know about one of these restaurants.
Jay Villani: Well it’s too kind. Thank you very much.
Lisa Belisle: Well, it’s delicious food, really wonderful people, obviously you work with Spencer Albee is our audio producer and he’s a musician and he also has worked with you for I guess 10 years off and on. So I’m guessing knowing how much I like Spencer, there must be something really great, some great energy.
Jay Villani: He’s a good kid.
Lisa Belisle: Yeah. I’ve been speaking with Jay Villani who is the owner of Local 188, Sonny’s, and Salvage BBQ, and co-owner of the newly opened Bunker Brewing Company. And also father of two and husband to Alison. Thanks so much for coming in today.
Jay Villani: Oh thanks for having me guys, appreciate it.
Lisa Belisle: You’ve been listening to Love Maine Radio, show number 282, Pond Hockey and Portland Eating. Our guests have included Patrick Guerette, Joshua Perry, and Jay Villani. For more information on our guests and extended interviews visit lovemaineradio.com. Love Maine Radio is downloadable for free on iTunes. For a preview of each week’s show sign up for our e-newsletter and like our Love Maine Radio Facebook page. Follow me on Twitter as drlisa and see my running, travel, food, and wellness photos as bountiful1 on Instagram. We love to hear from you so please let us know what you think of Love Maine Radio. We welcome your suggestions for future shows. Also, let our sponsors know that you have heard about them here. We are privileged that they enable us to bring Love Maine Radio to you each week. This is Dr. Lisa Belisle. I hope that you have enjoyed our Pond Hockey and Portland Eating show. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of your day. May you have a bountiful life.
Announcer: Love Maine Radio is made possible with the support of Berlin City Honda, the Rooms by Harding Lee Smith, Maine Magazine, Portland Art Gallery, and Art Collector Maine. Audio production and original music have been provided by Spencer Albee. Our editorial producer is Paul Koenig. Our assistant producer is Shelbi Wassick. Our community development manager is Casey Lovejoy, and our executive producers are Kevin Thomas, Rebecca Falzano, and Lisa Belisle. For more information on our hosts, production team, Maine Magazine, or any of the guests featured here today, please visit us at Lovemaineradio.com